Shotgunworld.com

There is a first time for everything and I experienced it on Saturday during opening day in Va.
Shooting Lightfield Hybred Elite 12 guage, 3" Sabot Slugs out of my Mossberg 500, 24" rifled barrel.
It was a 20 yard shot, spike buck was running straight at me.
I had the xhairs right on his chest.
Just as I sqweezed the trigger he turned a bit to his right.
My shot hit his left shoulder blade (scapula I believe) and deflected off!
Fur flew off due to the shot.
I saw the shot hit and he never missed a beat, didnt flinch, didnt limp when running, he just turned away and ran into the woods tail up
I saw the impact area when he turned, looked like a 2" gouge into his shoulder, not a clean entrance hole.
Searched the area for 2 hours and didnt find a trace of blood where he was hit or where he ran into and thru the woods.
Just bothers the heck out of me that the slug didnt enter the animal and that I wounded him.
Will definately be the last time I ever take a shot like that.

I would say you likely didn't have as good of hit as you thought. Head on shots are tough at a stationary deer let alone one running at you? How come you only shot once? If you centered him at all, he likely would have gone right down.

My guess is that it was more of a glancing type hit than a ricochet.

+1 ricochet implies a more drastic change imparted to the bullet's trajectory than glancing. A ricochet just isn't very likely.

Also +1 on not taking a shot like that again. We all hate to see a wounded animal suffering. Hard to say for sure if your spike buck is ok or not based on your account...hopefully you don't come across a deer carcass with a shoulder wound while out in the woods!

No one likes to wound an animal, but stuff happens. We learn and move on. The deer won't go to waste. God's other creatures need to eat too.

Sounds like a glancing shot. He is still alive and healthy unless someone else got him. Had you gotten any kind of a fatal shot on him at that distance with that slug, there is no way he would have run off much less act like he had not even gotten hit. I had a similar shot a few years back except it was a 6pt and he was standing still at 40yds. I shot and he went over backwards and down into a creek. I did not wait. I just jacked a new shell and went running over there. He was laying there motionless when I got to him and then he started to roll over and try to crawl back on his feet so I shot him again. Upon closer examination, my first shot glanced off his neck and simply cut the skin maybe about and inch long. It did not even dig into any meat. He just freaked out and went over backwards and knocked himself out. Had I done the 30 minute wait like so many say you should, I would never had found him and would still be wondering how he got away to this day.

In other words, don't worry about it and don't blame the slug. Chalk it up to user error.

I had a very similar situation happen to me years ago. I was doe hunting in river bottom (no rifles allowed). I was using some Lyman 350gr. wad-slug for the 20ga. hand-loads. It was the first and last time I took them hunting.

Shot was on a large (about 150 lb on the hoof) white-tail doe standing, quartering towards, shot at 80-ish yards with a scoped 20ga. NEF-USH. Slug hit her in her front shoulder and broke her front leg that was towards me and then rattled along the outside of her rib cage breaking multiple ribs but not penetrating inside before glancing completely off to the side. Initial slug deflection on impact with her front leg was about 30-ish degrees which put it on a course that was about 5 to 10 degrees intercept course from parallel with her rib cage and then after turning that amount glancing off at a large enough angel to exit her hide and not penetrate into the guts, tangle with the hind quarter, or even crease the fur. I figure at least 45 degree course change for the slug all in all.

She was still mobile on three legs with no damage to her internal organs. Thankfully, I took that shot very early in the morning just after sun-rise and there was fresh snow. Tracked her all day at a pace faster then a brisk walk but not quite jogging or running with only two bathroom breaks. I finally caught up with her when she was nearly completely tired out just before sun-set and finished the job at nearly point blank range.

Don't ever want to ever put either an animal or myself through that again. I must have covered 20+ miles that day easily. My legs were so sore the next morning I could hardly walk.

Hey Turbo, do you remember how the meat tasted from that doe? I have heard that such long periods of extreme stress result in terrible venison.

There may be some truth to that, but it's probably not as bad as some might say it is. She didn't taste all that good for a doe, she tasted more like a buck. Not anywhere near as bad as buck in rut though. Usually a nice fat whitetail doe in farm field country tastes the best of all. Whitetail usually tastes better then mule deer and does usually taste better then bucks. Buck in rut tastes the worst of all and mountain mule deer in rut is only good for dog food if you can get your dog to eat it!

At least that's how it works around her, we got whitetail and mule deer and then some interbreeding between the two in some areas that makes a weird hybrid where all the does have velvety horns either spike or little two point forks. Those taste fine and for years where the deer are scarce and you can't get B-tags (antlerless) I deliberately hunt those areas looking for short horns with velvet because then they are a good tasting doe that's legal on a A-tag (antlered).

I hear you on the muleys. I shot one once and would never consider doing it again, it was that bad. I aint in it for the horns, it is the meat I am after. In the farm country where I hunt, the whitetail bucks aint all that bad, but they do taste a little better when killed before the rut (and they are much heavier then). There is no deer I would rather kill and eat than a fat button buck. I orphaned one during bow season and hopefully he will still be around until opening day of gun this Saturday so I can get him back with his ma in the freezer.

Don't know if you butcher your deer yourselves, but there is a world of difference in taste between butchering it yourself and paying a butcher to do it. I don't know if its because they hang it too long or or they don't take the time to remove some of the funky, nasty sinew or what, but I'll never let another butcher touch another deer that I kill. There is never more than a few days between when I shoot it and its in the freezer. You get allot more meat too when you do it yourself. A few years back, I shot a doe on one day and a buck the next. I butchered the doe myself and took the buck to the butcher. The buck weighed at least 20 to 30 lbs more than the doe and yet I got probably 5 more lbs of meat out of the doe. A properly butchered buck will tase every bit as good as a doe unless of course the doe has spots and the meat is pink like veal.

Yes, I do my own butchering. And, yes, I do a doe and a buck the same way. Yes, there is still a difference in taste.

Do you use a saw and cut chops and steaks or do you seperate the muscles into individual boneless roasts and cuts? How long do you let them hang? Do you hang them with the skin on? Do you vacumm pack it, wrap in in freezer paper, or just toss it in ziplock baggies.

I used to think the same thing about the taste of muleys as all I had ever eaten was Mule Deer harvested from SD. They fed heavily on sage and scrub and tasted like it. However when I was in Montana I had the opportunity to eat venison from a Muley that had fed in agricultural land and it was a world of difference. It's not necessarily the species as it is what they have been eating.

Okay, I usually let them hang for a couple nights. Usually first night with hide on and second night with hide off. Basically, first day, shoot it, hang it in the shop, and then go to bed. Then the next day I'll usually skin it and cut the head, tail, and bottom sections off the legs where there isn't any meat below the elbow/knee with a saws-all and trim some of the larger slabs of fat off with a big serrated knife. Then go hunting again and let it hang overnight again. Next day I get to work and cut it up and put it in the freezer.

Basically I work up from bottom to top (hanging with spreader bar via. rear legs). Front legs first. Since I usually try to aim to put a 20ga. hard solid slug through both front leg ball joints and blow their lungs out and tear the front off the heart all at the same time as I break their front legs so they don’t go anywhere this is usually hamburger meat with some larger chunks being stew meat.

Then I run the saws-all blade across the ribs on both sides cutting them right at the edge of the back-strap so it's just rib-meat not any back-strap I'm taking and pick both rib cages clean for hamburger meat.

This leaves me with the rear hocks with the entire length of the spinal column hanging down below. I then cut off the neck section just nipping the end of the back-strap meat and pick the neck clean for hamburger and stew meat.

Then I cut the main spine section clear of the rear hocks with the saws-all making an upside down V shape with the point where the tail used to be. I then take that long section of spine and work the back-straps loose with a flexible fish flaying knife and then flip it over and get the mini inside body cavity back straps loose the same way. Both the main back straps and the mini inside the body cavity back straps are then laid out on a cookie sheet and put in the freezer. I then pick the spinal column clean for whatever hamburger meat remains.

Then it's on to the rear hocks, done one at a time. On the upper portion I separate the three main muscle groups from the bone. The couple inches thick by about 6+ inches wide outer "strap" muscle, the inner foot-ball shaped multi-muscle tight around the upper part of the bone which I treat like a single unit, and then the 2" x 3" to 3" x 4"+ depending on the size of the deer oval cross section long muscle that goes down towards the lower section of the hock. All those get separated from the bone, each other, and any gristle or fat is removed from them then they get added to the cookie sheet in the freezer to stiffen up. The gristly lower muscle group gets removed from the bone and the ends where most of the tendons and gristle is chopped off with a cleaver and tossed saving only the center meaty part that goes in the hamburger meat bowl (a very similar thing is done with the many sections of the front legs). Any remaining miscellaneous meat sections in the rear hocks are either cut into stew meat or go in the hamburger meat bowl depending on size and meat quality.

During the entire course of cutting up a deer I completely de-bone all the meat and remove as much fat, gristle, and tendons as possible. Each big chunk that is cut off (front legs, the rib cage plates, neck section, back-bone, rear hocks) is soaked in a five-gallon bucket of light brine consisting of half a bucket of cold water, about half a cup of apple cider vinegar, and then a tablespoon of salt. While I'm cutting up one thing I've got the next thing soaking in the brine bucket.

Once I've got everything deboned I then grind my hamburger meat with about 15% beef suit and pack it in double layer butcher paper, label them, and put them in the freezer. Then I take the stew meat and pack it in zip log bags with just a little bit of my light brine mix that is fresh clean so that I can squeeze all the air out of the bags and the little bit of empty space between the meat cubes is taken up by the brine and then I wrap the zip lock bags in a single layer of butcher paper, label them, and put them in the freezer.

Then its steak cutting time, I take out the lengths of back-strap and the main rear hock muscle sections from the freezer and put them on the cutting board. By now they are partially frozen and nice and stiff but not completely frozen rock hard. They cut easily into about 3/4" thick slices with a serrated knife just like you were cutting bread. I basically make four different types of steaks, "Rump Steaks" from that foot-ball shaped muscle group around the upper rear hock bone, "Strip Steaks" from that couple inches thick by about 6+ inches wide outer "strap" muscle, "Back Strap Steaks" from the back straps, and then "Steak Nuggets" from that 2" x 3" to 3" x 4"+ depending on the size of the deer oval cross section long muscle that goes down towards the lower section of the hock muscle, the mini inside body cavity back straps, and any small end chunks or scraps from the other large muscles.

I then fill the quart size zip lock freezer bags about half full, separating the various types of steaks, and then I use a variety of different marinade mixes putting about half a cup in each zip lock bag. I squeeze the air out and zip them up so it’s steak in marinade in the bags and then wrap them in a single layer of butcher paper and label them. Then when I want steak I just take a package out of the freezer and put it in the fridge to thaw a day ahead of time and it marinades right in the bag while it thaws. The largest “Rump Steaks” are great for the barbecue because they are large enough that you don’t get casualties that slip through the grates to the fire below, the “Strip Steaks” and “Back Strap Steaks” are perfect for one of those little George Forman grills on the kitchen counter, and the “Steak Nuggets” are wonderful when pan fried with breading in a cast iron skillet. And one package is a meal by itself for one person or a meal for two with multiple side dishes so it’s easy to get out how much you need and thaw it a day ahead of time.

I agree, that what they have been eating makes a difference. I believe I made a distinction between deer taken in farm country and mountain country. Still the species makes a difference too. Whitetail in the farm country is better then mule deer in farm country and whitetail in the mountain country is better then mule deer in the mountain country.

Mule deer buck in rut in the mountain country is really, really bad --- not worth the bullet and/or the effort.

Quite an informative post, if a bit off topic from the original thread direction LOL.

I have a few quick questions:

1)Beef is hung in cold storage for as long as 45 days to age. In your experience does venison behave differently than beef when aged?

2)When you described the meat in the area of the boiler-room/target zone, did you mean that you use the hemoraged meat or just the regular meat but in that area? We always throw out the hemoraged meat.

...and a few quick points:

3)I am pretty sure the name for the 'mini inside body cavity back straps' is actually "tenderloins". Not trying to be a jackass, you just seem like you take your butchering seriously enough that you might want to know. Here, check out this PDF of beef cuts. It's Canadian, but I'm pretty sure our cows are the same as your cows...and the cuts of meat can be the same on a deer, just smaller.

http://www.canadianbeef.info/us/en/reso ... No=3780947

4)Regarding the ribs. I have had wonderful success doing minimal cleanup to the ribs and slow cooking them as if they were pork ribs. I leave the fat on then marinade, glaze, sear, braze, ...and then slow cook. Since the ribs are so long, I cut them in half perpendicular to the rib bones (yielding 4 portions that are closer to pig sized). Give it a try! Lots of work in the cooking, but less in the butchering...and ribs are fun!

Lots of interesting stuff here. I have also noticed that whitetails from the mountains are generally poorer in taste than those from farm country but still a lot better than mountain muley. When it comes to ageing whitetail, I find that it dont make much difference on a 6-month old deer (my personal favorites), but deer that are 1.5 years or older are more tender if aged a week or so at 32-45 deg F. I usually hang them in the garage until the day before butchering with the skin on. Leaving the skin on minimizes the temperature swing and keeps the meat from drying out. You can actually feel the meat stiffen up as rigermortise sets in after 8 hours or so. When it has hung long enough, the meat gets soft again and feels just like it did when freshly killed, telling you it is ready to be cut up. No difference with beef but, since the carcasses are much heavier, it takes longer for the rigermortise to come out. All red meat is basically the same when it comes to this process. I am lucky to live in a region where we almost always have optimum hanging weather throughout gun season. Bow season has been productive so far though, and it has been warm, so I have needed to use an old refrigerator in the garage with all the racks removed that I keep around for that purpose. I also would never consider letting a butcher get his hands on any of my corn fed whitetails.

Don't blame you one little bit on that one, I'm smacking my lips right now on that "corn fed" part. Most of the areas I hunt are mainly alfalfa hay fields and not a whole lot of grain/cash crops. I have hunted and eaten deer on a large farm on the east side that does mainly barley crops and that was really good but I think corn fed would probably be even better.



1 ~ Can’t say I haven’t let it hang longer maybe up to a week at times but those have been the exception rather then the norm. Unlike where m512 is which is apparently in corn growing country up her in the big sky the weather is drastic and unpredictable nearly the whole year but especially in spring and fall. You can have 70 degrees with nice warm sunshine, clear skies and a gentle fall breeze rustling through the multi-colored autumn tree leaves about noon time and by 5:00p.m. have an inch of fresh snow on the ground with the temperature below freezing and a howling wind and then a day later it warms back up again and melts all the snow off. That’s not a joke I’ve literally seen it happen. So long story short if you let your deer hang the longer you let it hang the more chance the weather will change and warm up to the point of potentially rotting the meat or drop so cold as to freeze it solid as an ice block which makes it hell to try to butcher out. Butchering it out quickly isn’t a matter of taste it’s a matter of prudence. Especially when your shop is un-insulated, barely wind proof, and heat is via a big barrel stove that has to be refueled every half hour or so to keep it hot enough to keep the place warm. When I do let it hang longer I leave the hide on. Once the hide comes off it gets cut up the next day.

2 ~ I throw out the blood shot meat too. But there really isn’t a whole lot of it in the impact area, maybe like an inch ring around the hole and that’s it if that. With full bore solid slugs that don’t expand and just punch a hole clean through plus a hydraulic shock wave from a flat solid meplat on the nose inside the chest cavity it doesn’t make for a whole lot of blood shot meat like with a soft lead slug or one of those expanding hollow point pistol bullets in a sabot shotgun loads. I’m not saying it doesn’t tear up the meat, indeed for probably a 4 inch plus radius the meat is like tenderized and pulls apart in strips instead of staying together in regular muscle mass tubes but it isn’t blood shot, there is a little blood from the chest cavity blood draining but it comes out nice and pink with only a quick soak in my brine mixture and goes into the hamburger meat bowl. No different then parts of the rear hock meat and the tenderloins that get some blood on them in the gutting process in the field. I believe Dixie Slugs puts it this way about their factory loads for the 12ga. that are similar to my hand loads for the 20ga. “You can eat right up to the hole”.

3 ~ Thanks, but from the diagram you included I’m not entirely sure - I’m talking about the meat that’s just opposite of the back straps that’s on the inside of the body cavity on the inside bottom edge of the spinal column that start about the diaphragm and go back to where the rear hocks start, basically the meat strips behind the liver, stomach, and intestines when the deer is on it’s back when your gutting it. From the meat cut diagram I’m not so sure that’s the same spot as where it says tenderloin comes from.

4 ~ I’ve never liked ribs as ribs, not just deer but beef and pork as well. I’m much more of a steak guy.

I live in Illinois I built a 12 x 14 shed with a 3 x 7 walk in cooler, just for corn fed deer. we skin ours as soon as we get them. We let them hang a week. We take all our meat that we are gonna grind and put in a ice chest with a drain, and let it sit at a steep angle over night. In 70 pounds of meat we will get about a quart of blood, and it is still not dried out. We maintain 45 degrees in the cooler. We use a big window air to cool with. If you put a bucket of water in there it will not dry out or freeze.
We built it for $200.00 out of used lumber all 2x6 and 1by tin off of a old barn.
It has gottin real high at the locker here at $200. per deer if you can get it in and they are not full.