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 Post subject: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:07 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:36 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Upstate New York
I noticed in a post that someone mentions that smoothbore slugs tend to lead barrels heavily. I had the same experience while sighting in my 1959 Ithaca Deluxe Deerslayer. I originally attributed the leading to the undersize Deerslayer barrel but now I'm wondering if the leading is a common problem? :(




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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 3477
Location: Rochester, NY
I really haven't had the chance to see what leading does to the accuracy in a smooth bore. I have had 2 Ithaca smoothbore Deerslayers ( a 12 and a 20) and it seemed that the "leading was fairly consistant and on all sides of the barrel as opposed to a hit and miss situation up the bore. I tend to doubt it has the effect that rifle leading has to a projectile.. But, it sounds like a fun summertime project to see if there is any real problem. Part of the problem is that the Foster slugs are pretty much pure lead and it washes off in a bore easily, but I think it is a small deposit or streak as opposed to something heavy that will effect folllowing shots. In an Ithaca Deerslayer the bore is pretty uniform but the slugs differ by many 1000'ths when measured. In most barrels there is no real uniform dimension that is constant from breech to muzzle, it isn't really all that necessary with shot which is what most shotguns shoot. I guess I will have to look into this and do a range report later this year with my findings.


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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 8:43 pm
Posts: 202
Location: MT. Braddock Pa.
You hit the nail on the head, the slugs are soft, not to mention the fact you have a forcing cone in front of the chamber. the slug comes out of the case, expands radically then is slamed back to bore dia. I would like to see them coat the slugs to reduce fowling. the ideal slug bbl. would not have a forcing cone but be more like a rifle chamber. the only problem with that is cases would have to be a specific length. then the bbl would not handle shot very well. so i guess for now the best option would be to coat the slugs. cant have it all.


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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:04 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:36 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Upstate New York
I'm wondering if any of the available Foster type slugs may be harder or more resistant to leading? I know the Dixie slug is hard but the company did not recommend their use in the early Deerslayer because the Dixie Slug is much larger than the Deerslayer bore. I think that the lead buildup while I was sighting in was causing a pressure increase as I noted more and more difficult extraction. Next time I sight in I'm going to take cleaning supplies and clean the barrel after every few shots to get a better idea of the real accuracy. Fortunately, in actual hunting, the required 1 or 2 shots will not be affected by the leading. I'm almost tempted to smear some lead bullet lube over the open nose of the slug before firing them!


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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:03 pm
Posts: 976
Location: Ohio
You could try Brenneke slugs which use a harder alloy. They also make two types which I beleive are moly coated.


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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 3477
Location: Rochester, NY
I have conversed with Yogi a lot and he loves the Brenekees. I haven't used them for years but I was really impressed with them the last time I shot them. I have moved into rifled barrels and sabots to some degree so I don't use them a lot.. That may change too. I am still experimenting.. it might take a lifetime to come to the right decission,, oh well, it is fun no matter what.


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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:19 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Something I've used to reduce the fouling is spraying with Ms Moly to molycoat the bore. Seems to work pretty well. A friend used some sort of bore prep that was supposed to coat and "combine" with the surface metal. I forget what it was called, but it worked pretty good for him. I could fire about five rounds before it started to lead. He could fire a few more, but also needed to reapply the lube.


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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:26 pm
Posts: 605
Location: Ithaca NY
Yes, as noted, I have used the Brenneke BM's in my double barrel slug gun ( factory made as a slug gun verses a shotshell gun that has been modified to shoot slugs). I am pleased with the Brenneke's. I have also shot Stars&Stripes 1 and 1/8 once DG slugs although it does appear to leave more fouling in my barrels. The ultra hard and low coefficient of friction coating on the Brenneke's seems to leave a marked decrease in fouling.

By the way, you guys may appreciate it this story. Last evening I went to chain saw a 80 foot high or so tree down from a very steep and nasty slope at a lower elevation from my house. The tree was beginning to obstruct a terrific view from the upstairs porch we have of a valley and the two "mountain ranges" past it. Truly a million dollar view.

I got not quite half way through the tree and hit something that dulled the blade. It was then like trying to cut with a butter knife. I was getting nowhere. Couldn't find the right file to sharpen the blade. The tree is about 18+ inch diameter.

Stuck, right? Nope.

I went to the upstairs porch with a couple of my guns which later expanded into a small arsenal. I ended up with a 243 Remington 700, a 300 Win Mag also in Remington 700, and a 223 (also Remington), and my big 12 gauge slug gun. Unfortunately I only had 5 Brenneke slugs.

The base of the tree was 45 yards away (I scoped it). I unloaded a few 243's in 80 and 100 grainers and then the Brenneke's. Inspected the damage. This Locust tree was tough. And I could not decipher the depth of penetration of what I shot into it, but it seemed like it was NOT deep enough. I then shot the 300 Win mag. I chose the 150 grainers over the 180 grainers because I thought I'd get deeper penetration. All my bullets by the way were hunting rounds (CoreLokt or expanding type) so I wasn't getting as deep penetration as the task needed. I inspected it again. It just seemed like the projectiles were stopping short of the halfway mark. Hence, this tree was not coming down with this method.

Fortunately, I did have some full metal jacket 55 grainers in 223. I shot about 5 rounds and the tree teetered. One more 223 and the big tree timbered.

The view is now restored and it is fantastic!

I went down and inspected the stump. You could see how deeply the 223 penetrated. I didn't recover the Brennekes (yet). I did recover one bigger hunk of lead (it appears to be the 300 Win Mag and it was about 4 inches into the tree, so once again NOT anywhere near enough.

I do not know what did the most damage. I need to inspect the two ends more closely and try to excavate the slugs and bullets. However, I can say, thus far, and from experience when attempting to timber trees a full metal jacket in a very fast round is proven medicine. (The 55 grainer 223 flies at about 3250 fps). I feel the combo of the Brenneke's WITH the full metal jacket 223's made relatively easy work out of what could have been a very nasty and difficult "job".

By the way, no discernable fouling on the barrels afer the 5 Brenneke's, not like I was expecting any. But this is just journalism.

Also, this assigment could lead to my next career: tree felling service, specializing in taking down trees on slopes and difficult access terrain. Do you think I should specify the range? hahahaha!


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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:03 pm
Posts: 976
Location: Ohio
No dangerous backlash either. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:40 pm
Posts: 1066
Location: Old Town, Florida
Leading is a way of life is you shoot the softer lead slugs, as with handguns with soft lead bullets.
The best way to clean it out is with a piece of Chore Boy (pure copper) scouring pad. Be careful, as there are some copper coated steel pads.
Simply take the pad apart, cut a square about 2" with an old pair of shears, and put that over an old shotgun brush. A few swipes and the soft leading is gone! It also works in rifled barrels.
Regards, James

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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:21 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:36 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Upstate New York
prof242 mentioned a bore treatment. I have used Tetra bore treatment in rifles and it works wonders. I'm going to use it in the Ithaca next time to see what happens. I seem to remember many years ago someone using auto water pump lube on the nose of slugs to stop lead buildup. Kind of hard to find nowadays but it is mostly wax with some small amount of grease to soften it.


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 Post subject: Re: Smoothbore slug barrel leading
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:14 pm
Posts: 965
Location: White Marsh, Maryland
hk500usa wrote:
prof242 mentioned a bore treatment. I have used Tetra bore treatment in rifles and it works wonders. I'm going to use it in the Ithaca next time to see what happens. I seem to remember many years ago someone using auto water pump lube on the nose of slugs to stop lead buildup. Kind of hard to find nowadays but it is mostly wax with some small amount of grease to soften it.


Anybody wanting to do an "ultimate bore coating" can contact an outfit in New England called PolyCoating. They do a teflon/nickle electroless coating for commercial machinery, etc., and have been known to drop the occasional rifle or shotgun barrel into the tanks from time to time. Some of these "accidents" have wound up getting installed on some very high end long guns made by some big names in the business, and have shown significant performance improvements over regular barrels. The coating can be just a few thousandths of an inch thick, but it bonds to steel to the point that only a grinder can remove it, and with a surface hardness over RC 62 and a coefficient of friction similar to a greased pig, the ballistics are impressive..........
Downside is it essentially doubles the cost of an average barrel, and the finish is inside AND outside, so you get a bright shiny barrel that may offend some of the black rifle fans among us.



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