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So I have cracked 2 sets of 20 gauge tubes and I have decided to change recipes. On Alliant's site the following recipe has a pressure of 7,700 PSI:

20g Rem. Premier Hull
Rem. 209 primer
Oranger Duster wad
16.5 g of Unique
7/8 ounce shot
velocity of 1150 FPS

Then on the back of the bag of Orange Duster wads this EXACT same list of ingredients is listed to produce 10,900 PSI and a velocity of 1,200 FPS.

What am I supposed to believe? Is this even good at all or will I end up cracking more tubes?

If anyone can lend their guidance, I would appreciate it. I just want a load that won't crack tubes. Thanks.

/ Greg Sturgill


Well, its okay no matter how you figger it.

the 10,900 PSI is well below the SAAMI maximum for 20 gauge, which is 12,000 psi

Whereas the 7,+++ PSI is desireable, it is the Chamber Pressure that you have to watch. 10,900 isn't so bad at all.

However, I am no authority on whether or not you're going to be cracking tubes. Have you been doing that?

/

Mr. Sturgill,

I am sure that you will get a few suggestions and answers regarding your 20 gauge reloading question. However, I would strongly suggest that you call Alliant direct @ 1 800 276 9337 and ask them....it has been an accepted fact to believe the powder company before any thing or anyone else.......Terry

I haven't heard of Unique being a tube-cracker. Is that what you were using, or what you were thinking of switching to?

i was using universal clays. i am switching to unique for this new recipe.

Greg,
I have been working with Alliant on a book load similar to that one , which I stumbled upon from a similar post on this forum. All I can tell you is this. DON"T USE THAT DATA.. Their data that combines Unique and the Orange Duster is highly suspect. Don't use it.

Once it all is retested and reverified, then maybe the new data will be reliable.

DO NOT exceed 16.0 grs. Unique in 20 Ga. 7/8 oz. loads, if You intend to use them in tubesets. Personally I would NOT EXCEED 15.8 grs Unique. I suggest keeping the powder drop at 15.6 to 15.8 grs. The use of a RXP Rem. wad will further ease the pressures, as will the Down Range DRV-20 wad.

The use of Alliant's 20/28 will also ease the champer pressures, A charge of 15.5 to 15.7 of 20/28 will produce a very nice Skeet load at near 1200 FPS.

DLM

Now the question I have to ask, what tubes and models are you using, and where are they cracking (chamber at the extractor/pin, chamber to tube, or down the tube)?

.


DON"T USE THAT DATA.. Their data that combines Unique and the Orange Duster is highly suspect. Don't use it.
-----D. L. Marcum

It seemed worthwhile to repeat the message, as D. L. Marcum said it, it bears repeating. That's worthwhile counsel.

/

It seems UNBELIEVABLE to me that this data is wrong, or incorrect, or "highly suspect". I wonder how many others, of the hundreds and hundreds, of recipes are inaccurate, or suspect and need to be retested? I have never used data other than that listed in the powder manufacturer information that is provided to the public. I have always been responsible and weighed everything, and continue to check weights on powder and shot every 10 shells, even on recipes that I have used for 10 years or more.

The load I used previously, which was also a published recipe from the powder manufacturer cracked tubes (chambers), TWICE.

And now I go to the trouble to specifically SEEK OUT AND LOCATE A RECIPE WITH ONE OF THE LOWEST PSI's only to find out that the data is possibly incorrect?? What a shame that I wasn't able to purchase 25 wads and six ounces of powder?? I guess I'll just throw away several pounds of powder and 1000 wads. Or I'll just load them up and shoot them praying the tubes won't crack? Or I'll just go back to loading my old recipe and start a USPS fund to pay for shipping when I send the tubes back to Texas every couple of years or so for repairs......

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO FIND A SIMPLE RECIPE THAT I CAN USE THAT WON'T CRACK MY TUBES?????

Surprise - According to Alliant's online data your load only gives 1155 fps. Nothing wrong with 1155 fps. That's what I load to.

The listed 1200 fps load with that wad/hull/primer combo is a whopping 17.5 grains of Unique! Yikes. Aren't you glad you didn't try that?

When I loaded Unique, I always dropped 15.0-15.5 grains of Unique. The paper Hercules manual from back then showed 16.0 grains of Unique in both AA and RXP hulls with about every primer/wad combo for 1200 fps.

So what was your tube cracking load?

check your pm.

Gregg,
Here's what you can do with those components. The Unique and the Orange Dusters. They combine with the use of a AA HS case, to make a fine 3/4 oz. 20 ga. load. Hardly any recoil and breaks clays with authority. In my tube set it absolutely duplicates the performance of the 28 ga.. Wonderful Skeet load

Win. AA HS case.
W-209 Primer
15.8 grs Unique
Orange Duster wad
3/4 oz. shot

Seat wad with no wad pressure and adjust crimp die to remove any dishing of crimp.

Same load works fine in Remington cases too, except the Winchester OEM wad, the WAA-20, must be used. No clone wads can be used. Too Short. Only the genuine Winchester wad will work.

DLM

Not to try to take over a thread, but I'm getting read to load a mild 20 gauge target load with Unique and 7/8 ounces of shot and Clayduster cheapo wads, and one load for both Remington and AA cases and the cheapest 209 primers I can find at the time. I ordered the bushing for my PonWarren that should throw about 14.6 grains of Unique. Will it clear the barrel?

Mild is fine. Slow is fine. I just don't want anything blowing up or tubes cracking.

As long as you stay at 16.0 OR LESS of Unique, you will have no problems with tubes or anything else. However I think you will find that loads of less than 15.0 grs of Unique will be on the anemic side in most load combinations. You will be best served not going below that 15.0 load.

DLM

I don't know diddly about tubes and what pressure they'll tolerate. I wonder if there have been instances of factory loads cracking tubes? If so, I'd say the bigger issue is with the tubes and their maker, not the ammo.
Is it not accepted that the tubes can handle SAAMI max pressures? If so, then either of the pressures shown should be harmless.

But if it were me, I wouldn't ask internet experts or even the manufacturers. Here's what I'd do.

I'd think very, very carefully about what components I want to be married to. Then I'd load up 5 or 6 rounds by carefully handweighing each and every powder drop and shot drop. Then I'd select 3 with the most perfect cimps, put them in a baggie and label it with a Sharpie. I'd probably concoct 3 different recipes....I'd pick a powder charge that I had reason to believe was near the max pressure I'm be willing to reach, maybe I'd prefer a different wad if it would work, maybe another primer than the one listed is easier to come by, whatever.
Each 3-sample recipe would be bagged and labeled and, if they are all in the same hull with the same primer (visually indistinguishable), I'd color code the primers with a marker.

Then I'd write a cover letter, include a check for $5/shell, package them in a box with an ORM-D label, and ship them to

Tom Armbrust 1108 West May Ave.
McHenry, IL. 60050-8918
Phone 815-385-0037

I'd receive a report with the peak chamber pressures and 4-foot instrumental velocity, and I would KNOW exactly what my loads will do.
This is the way advanced hobbyists safely develop new loads that don't appear in the published literature.

You could look for a load using Longshot powder and the components you currently have. The published pressure should be lower than either of the two powders you mention.

I load Unique with Orange Dusters in STS or old AA. 15.8-16.0 gr Unique, NobleSport or Fiocchi primer, 7/8oz of shot. I have loaded between 8-10,000 of these without any tubeset problem.