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 Post subject: Winchester 97
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:17 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:25 pm
Posts: 20
I found a 1915 winchester 97 with a 30 inch full choke barrel. I'm getting it because its made out of CARBON STEEL and WALNUT lol. I'm just wondering why don't people use old guns for hunting? I've heard many times that the steel made during the turn of the century was very high quality, and things made from that time period are often very desirable for use as the "charge" in modern steel mills. This nullifies the "metallurgical inferiority/danger of old guns argument."
I'm running out of steam, discuss

spencer




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 Post subject: re: Winchester 97
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:42 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 47
Location: Alpena, Michigan
Hi Spencer, here is a link to a photo from our last day in South Dakota this past fall. We had a great hunt, lots of fun the locals were very friendly, we will be going back. I saw a lot of old Model 12's, and a couple of other '97s in use. I had a better bird per round fired ratio with the Model '97, than I did with my Model 12 or my Franchi 712 Raptor. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410 ... fullsize=1


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 97
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:44 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 3:30 pm
Posts: 2016
Location: Wisconsin
spencer mcgrew wrote:
..... "metallurgical inferiority/danger of old guns argument." ......


Really only applies to Damascus barrels or other guns which were produced during the blackpowder era. Any "modern" firearm, originally designed and intended for use with smokeless powder, and in good mechanical condition, is a non-issue.

We're done now.


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 Post subject: re: Winchester 97
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:47 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:25 pm
Posts: 20
Haha, very nice. I knew somebody would come forward.
spencer


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 97
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:08 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:00 am
Posts: 1009
spencer mcgrew wrote:
I'm just wondering why don't people use old guns for hunting?
spencer


A lot still do Spencer....

About all I hunt with is '97's.... I have them choked for every occasion as well as some in 16 gauge.
I was born (almost) and raised on the outside hammer and feel like something is missing on hammerless guns... I got a Browning designed Winchester Model 90 .22 pump for my fifth birthday.....
John Browning's genius caters to me as well. Most of his designs are friendly to the lefthander, especially his hammer guns.

Use your 1915 gun! 97's don't age like people do!....

Slidehammer


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 Post subject: re: Winchester 97
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:27 am 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:58 pm
Posts: 664
Location: al
i have 4 97's and use them to hunt with all the time all are 12 gauge. i have a model 12 20 gauge i dove hunt with and a model 12 3" duck gun i use to turkey hunt with, i also use browning auto 5's and a remington model 11 made in 1925 i shoot all of these guns very often. the newest winchester was made in 1956

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 Post subject: re: Winchester 97
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:53 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:14 am
Posts: 55
Location: Central Oregon
Let's get real for awhile. Damascus and steel from the early 1900's are not as good as today's steel. Early steel and Damascus were the same strength (vid. Sherman Bell's experiments with #2 frame Parker Damascus and steel which both failed at 30,000 psi). Also early guns were often short chambered with most 12 Ga at 2 9/16". Again according to modern tests, this increases the pressure about 200 psi. That also increases the recoil force against the shoulder and old wood/steel interface.

More on old guns: The Ithaca Flues 20/16 gauges are often found with cracked frames. They were not meant to be fired with modern ammo. Flues and earlier Ithaca designs include Ithacas under 400,000 serial numbers.

Modern steels mainly started around the early 1930's. Some a bit before.

Even the heavy Super Foxes were not meant for modern loads. The chambers will often be found to be bulged.


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 Post subject: re: Winchester 97
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:48 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 47
Location: Alpena, Michigan
Peter's right in saying that the early steel used isn't as strong as new steel. However it is adequate as long as you don't shoot the short magnum loads frequently, as they can loosen things up and will cause headspace problems eventually. Damascus guns are a different critter all together and can't be relied on to have the same strength as a steel barreled gun, because each damascus gun is more of an individual than a steel gun. Damascus barrels were from the black powder era and so were 2 5/8" chambers on 12 gauge guns. When Winchester quit making the Model 1893 , the production of the Model 1897 began to replace the 1893 which wasn't safe to fire smokeless loads. All 12 gauge Model 1897's had 2 3/4" chambers, 16 gauge model 1897's were 2 9/16" chambers until about 1930. There were a few model 1897's made with Damascus barrels prior to 1914, these would be black powder only guns after inspection by a qualified individual. I have been told by several highly qualified gunsmiths that a Winchester model 1897 or model 12 that is good condition can easily handle 2 3/4", 1 1/4 oz. shot, 3 3/4 dr. equiv.. It isn't a good idea to subject these old guns to heavy use for clay target shooting. I limit my usage to hunting only.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Winchester 97
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:16 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:00 am
Posts: 1009
Win71 wrote:
However it is adequate as long as you don't shoot the short magnum loads frequently, as they can loosen things up and will cause headspace problems eventually.

It isn't a good idea to subject these old guns to heavy use for clay target shooting. I limit my usage to hunting only.


There are old weak guns like the Flues and there are old strong guns like the Winchester 97.
This thread asked about a '97......
I would never worry about the receiver of a Model 97 developing excess headspace easily like certain other old (and extremely popular) pumps do. IT IS TOUGH.....

I wouldn't worry about shooting one a lot either. I have one with 30,000 rounds through it on Sporting Clays... Headspace is still tight.... But don't take my word alone, let Winchester tell you about a '97.....

Slidehammer

Image[/url]




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