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 Post subject: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 1
My father-in-law just gave me a Diamond Arms Co. 12 Gauge. Can anyone tell how old, value, and where to get parts (ie.new stock). I can not find a serial number, but I do know that it is old!




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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
The gun is what is known as a "Trade Brand Name" shotgun. That is a shotgun made by a major maker for and sold by a wholesaler or retailer who chose the name to go on the gun. I have listings for two guns with the name Diamond. One is just plain Diamond and it was made by the Stevens Arms & Tool Company of Chicopee Falls.MA. The other is Diamond Arms Company and it was also made by the Stevens Arms & Tool Company as well as by Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works of Fitchberg,MA and Harrington & Richarsons Arms Company of Worchester,MA. No matter the name, all were made for and sold by the Shapleigh Hardware Company of St. Louiis,MO a large wholesale sporting goods dealer. Value? You did not identify the gun as a single or double barrel or give any indication of its condition. Value of these old guns depend on the condition of the gun, the amount of original finish left on the metal and wood as well as the mechanical condition. Value can range fro about $200 for a double barrel in factory new condition and $175 for a single barrel in the same condition to less than $10 for either in a rusty rotten incomplete state for either. Most sell for between $100 to $75. No matter who made the gun it would have been made sometime between 1915 and 1930.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
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Location: WA/AK
Tobin also built doubles for Norvell-Shapleigh Hardware Co. of StLouis. I've seen them marked Diamond Arms Co. and marked Blue Diamond with the Norvell-Shapleigh name on the side-plates. They would have the "Pat. MAY 23-93 AND PATENTS PEND'G" rollstamp on the right watertable.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
Researcher 01
Thank you for that information. I have listings for guns with the name Blue Diamond Steel with Forehand Arms Co and Stevens Arns & Tool as makers but no seller listed. I have already listed my information on the Diamond and Diamond Arms Co. May I ask your source of information so I can update my listings?
Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 3670
Location: WA/AK
The source is guns I examined when writing my articles on Tobin for The Double Gun Journal, The Gun Report and Arms Collecting.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
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Thank you. Now I'll updated my listing of over 600 different names, makers and seller. As you will well know, we'll never get them all. There were just too many names, makers or sellers. I find at least one unknown name a month.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:22 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:15 am
Posts: 8
Update: These Diamond Shotguns have seen a fast boost in value over these past years and especially 2012 year with these increased gun sales. I've sold all those older ones I had!

The Diamond Arms 12 gauge single shotgun sold for $300+ in fair condition. So be sure to not give these away anymore. These 100 plus year old Diamond Trade guns are climbing in value everyday.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
My goodness. A posting from four years ago. Shotguns with the names just plain DIAMOND or DIAMOND ARMS CO. are "Trade Brand Name" shotguns. A "Trade Brand Name" shotgun is an inexpensive (not necessarily cheap) shotgun made by a major maker (and before 1940) for and was sold by a wholesale sporting goods dealer, a retail chain store or an independent seller (your local hardware store) who chose the name to go on the gun. The fore-mentioned guns were made by either the Stevens Arms Company of Chicopee Falls, Ma (1864 to date), Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works of Fitchburg,MA (1871 to 1993) 0r the Harrington & Richardson Arms Company of Worcester,MA (1871 to 1985) for and were sold at wholesale by the Shapleigh Hardware Company of St. Louis,MO. I don't understand the sudden interest in gun of these name except perhaps Stevens made doubles but then I quit collection over a year ago. I never would pay over $150 for a single barrel. By the way, my "Trade Brand Name" listing is up to over 950 names now.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:15 am
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Exactly. They are not cheap inexpensive guns.. but durable "built to last" guns for beginner collectors. Some are reaching over 100+ years of age. I've personally seen the retail market increase on these type guns especially in the South. We can't keep our guns in stock due to these new proposed gun laws. We sell them as soon as we get them now.

If you have a Diamond Arms, Trade Shot Gun.. then hang onto it. They are on the rise for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:48 pm 
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I have one in .410 bore which makes it doubly valuable. The guns were inexpensive by our current standards selling for between $10 to $25 when they were new. But remember wages back then were maybe $5.00 to $10.00 a day.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:37 pm
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Can't give them away where I am.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
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That's more like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:15 am
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If you are giving this old gun away ( or any gun ) in perfect working order.. I'll gladly take it and make serious money with zero investment, lol. Maybe $300 value isn't much to you... but I'll take it all day long.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:37 pm
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redfalcon wrote:
If you are giving this old gun away ( or any gun ) in perfect working order.. I'll gladly take it and make serious money with zero investment, lol. Maybe $300 value isn't much to you... but I'll take it all day long.


So would I but what I was saying is as far as reality goes, in the world of double barrels $300.00 is not much of a value. You get below that and you are almost in wall hanger status. And where I am it would not bring $300.00 so that's why I imply that you can't give them away where I am. Okay, I was wrong and should clarify. Someone might take it for free.


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:38 pm
Posts: 4
I have my Grandfathers Diamond Arms 12 ga. *Belgium Fine Twist Finish, on the top of the Solid Rib and "The Interchangeable" on the Right Hammer Lock.
I am in need of a stock for the shotgun. If anyone knows of anyone having one or another shotgun that has serious damage that I could buy the gun or stock off of please advise.
Thank You!
03


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
Between about 1880 and 1940 there was a great interest in America in all things having to do with shotguns, designing, making, selling (especially selling )and of course shooting. There were several major makers. Wholesale sporting goods dealers, retail chain stores and independent retailers (your local hardware store) all wanted shotguns with names of their own choosing on them to sell. The major makers were only too happy to meet this demand. They would stamp almost any name in the world o one of their standard models. Guns with the names just plain DIAMOND were made by the J. Stevens Arms Company;Those with the name DIAMOND ARMS CO were made by J. Stevens Arms Co, Iver Johnson;s Ams & Cycle Works and Harrington & Richards Arms Co: Those with the name DIAMOD ARMS CO ST.LOUIS by J. Steven Arms Tool Co and those with the name DIAMOND ARMS CO FOR SHAPLEIGH HARDWARE CO were made by Stevens Arms Co. All were made for and sold by the Shapleigh Hardware Company of St. Louis,MO. To buy a proper butt stock, one must know if the gun is a single barrel gun or a double barrel and the model of the gun as well as who made it. if you don't know tis information, you can ask your local gunsmith, a knowledgeable friend or your local library has catalogs There several gun parts dealers who might have used stocks from time to time (addresses below). There are also sites on the internet who sell us gun parts at auction like GUN BROKER.COM. Sorry but I can not tell you how old your gun is. To do that would need the serial number-year made table There is no published serial number-year made tables for any Stevens made guns, the records were destroyed in a factory in 1920 but Stevens did not start making "Trade Brand Name" shotguns until 1915. Th addresses for the part dealers are:
Gun Parts Inc
226 Williams Lane P O. Box 299
West Hurley, NY 12491
Customer Service Tel;845 679 4867

Popperts ,Gun Parts
P.O. Box 413
Glendale,PA 19030
Tel: 215 887 2391

Dixie Gun Works
Gun Powder Lane Box 130
Union City38281
Tel:800 238 6785

Jack First Inc.
1201 Turbine Drive
Rapid City, SD 57701
Tel:605 343 9544


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:14 pm 
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It's Belgian Ned. "The Interchangeable" was marketed by lots of dealers, and was made by Simonis, Janssen & Dumoulin and Neumann Freres. Syndicat des Pieces Interchangables was formed in 1898.

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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
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Drew
You may be right, I have listings for eleven including the INTERCHANGEABLES one you mentioned, all found in "Shotgun Markings 1865 to 1940,A List" compiled by the late Joseph T.Vorisek. I on my own came up with an INTERCHANGEABLE made by Crescent for and sold by E.C. Mecham of St. Louis, MO. Then the correspondent did call his gun a DIAMOND ARMS CO ST.LOUIS


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 Post subject: Re: Diamond Arms Co-St. Louis
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3774
Drew
Please read the subject title one more time,It says DIAMOND ARMS CO St.LOUIS. In my research i found that this gun was made by the Stevens Arms & Tool Company for and was sold at wholesale by the Shapleigh Hardware Company. A Belgian made gun no matter who sold it would have Belgian proof marks consisting of the letters "ELG"in an oval stamped on the bottom of the barrels.




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