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 Post subject: Help identifying old double barrel shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:16 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11
I have an old inherited double barrel shotgun. I cannot make out the name on the reciever clearly but believe it says BAXTER LTD DC. It is hammerless, reciever is engraved and case hardened. I have cell phone photos of black plastic buttplate logo and reciever. Any help is appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying old double barrel shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:37 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm
Posts: 621
Name doesn't ring a bell. Can you wipe it off with a solvent to see it better? Fill the letters with chalk may help.

Are there any markings on the flat surfaces of the barrel and the action where they meet?

Posting photos may be best (search on this site for instructions).


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying old double barrel shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:26 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11
Bob S wrote:
Name doesn't ring a bell. Can you wipe it off with a solvent to see it better? Fill the letters with chalk may help.

Are there any markings on the flat surfaces of the barrel and the action where they meet?

Posting photos may be best (search on this site for instructions).


It has lots of patina and corrosion and is hard to read, my wife says the other side of reciever says Bartel Gun Co. I will see if I can high light the lettering with a grease pencil and try to read with a magnifier. I have taken a couple pictures with my cell phone but resolution is not good.Image


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying old double barrel shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11
Here's a picture of the black plastic butt plate CR&Co? RC, BC hoping someone recognises it.Image


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying old double barrel shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:11 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 3393
Location: WA/AK
The gun appears to be a gun made by the Baker Gun Co., probably their low price model the Batavia Leader or Batavia Special, made as a "trade brand" gun for some jobber or dealer. The butt plate logo is BG&FCo. for Baker Gun & Forging Co.


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying old double barrel shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:19 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm
Posts: 621
I happen to have a gun that looks just like yours. It says "BAKER GUN CO." (the maker) on the right hand side plate (making it a 'sidelock' design). Mine also says "BATAVIA LEADER" (the Model) on the left side lock just in front of the screw head in your pic, the makers name is in front of the same screw on the right side.

Don't recognize the butt plate but they probably made many styles.

Baker Gun and Forging Co started in Batavia NY in 1890. They were sold to H.D. Folsom in 1919. Folsom kept making the Bakers until 1923. They either put together the guns from existing parts, by Crescent Arms also owned by Folsom, or were made from scratch. The 1919-1923 guns has an 'F' at the end of the serial number, presumably for Folsom. Mine is serial number 58XXF. I expect Folsom/Crescent started with new serial numbers since the Baker serial numbers went up to about 160,000 if I remember.

If you slip the barrels off you should see a serial number, probably on the side of the lugs hanging down from the rear of the barrels.

Among the Baker hammerless sidelocks were the models: Baker Trap Gun (single barrel), Elite Grade, Superba, Expert Grade, Deluxe Grade, Black Beauty, Grade S, Grade R, Paragon, Batavia Special, Baratvia Brush Gun, Batavia Leader, and Batavia Damascus.

Had to get mine out of my car to see if it looks like your, I use it for hunting.

If you search this site you should be able to find more info on Baker serial numbers.

Hey! We coud be Gun-In-Laws.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying old double barrel shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:57 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm
Posts: 621
You can read about the history of Baker guns at: http://www.bakercollectors.com/index.php?p=1_8_Baker-G-F-Co-Guns

My gun is from the 'Folsom Era'. You'd have to get more info like the name and serial number to pin down your model. The information on the Collectors site shows that the Bakers were made into 1930. A bit different than the Standard Catalog of Firearms which shows 1923 as the latest date.

From the S.C. of Firearms:
"The Baker Gun & Forging Company was the first American arms manufacturer to:
1. Make a single barrel trap shotgun.
2. Make a single barrel trap shotgun with a ventilated rib.
3. Make arms with an intercepting firing pin block safety.
4. Make a double barrel shotgun with hammers directly
behind the firing pins.
5. Use a long swinging sear that once adjusted gave
consistent trigger pull throughout the working life of an arm."

I'm a bit tired of older guns being referred to as 'Trade Name Guns' as a knee jerk reaction. Baker guns were always made by Baker, it is not a Trade Name gun made by someone else. They did make some guns with other retailers names on them, but I doubt they dropped the quality. The S.C. of Fireams estimated a value of $5,300 for a Expert Grade in excellent condition and says the Folsom era guns were identical. The Collectors site mentions one that sold for $10,000.00.

On a head-to-head shootout I'd place my refinished (by me) Batavia Leader against any gun ever made. Engraving and fancy wood don't make a gun any safer, longer lasting or better shooting. And Trade Names don't make them any worse.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Help identifying old double barrel shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:20 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11
BobS and Researcher1 you guys amaze me! it is time to get out the magnifyer and start looking the gun over real good, thanks for the info on bakercollectors site. The gun is in pretty rough shape but can imagine how beautiful it was when new, I can see tiger stripe in the walnut butt and a couple birdogs on sides of reciever with detailed engraving around edges. I'll see if I can get some better pictures. Thanks bunches


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