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 Post subject: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:01 am
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Location: Chicago, IL
Can anyone tell me if all Model 37's will repeatedly fire while pumping if the trigger is held?
I was told by an Ithaca fan that they discontinued that feature sometime in the 1940's.

Thanks for your assistance.

-TommyD
Chicago, USA

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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:02 am 
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I not sure I would say they "discontinued the feature". What they did is to add a feature (called a disconnector) to prevent slam firing for safety reasons. I'm not sure when, but my M37 from the late 40's will slam fire.

Some people seem to think slam firing is a good thing on tactical (self-defense) guns. I don't. I think you would be better off making a few aimed shots than spraying lead around everywhere and hoping to get lucky.

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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:42 am 
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I dont know if the new Ithaca pumps still have the feature but I own a 1981 M37 and it will slam fire.

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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:26 am 
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I stand to be corrected, but I think the change was made when the then new owners came out with their version of the 37 which they called the model 87 as in 1987. That was before the present owners reverted back to calling the Ithica pump the model 37 which also has a disconnector. In our state, the governing body for weapons for law enforcement and security companies does not allow shotguns that will slam fire so the old Ithicas, Winchester model 97s and 12s cannot be used for law enforcement anymore. While your finger is the ultimate safety, not having the ability to slam fire makes the gun safer and other than impressing people with a bunch of wild fast shots it really has not advantage.


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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:00 am
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Location: Port Clinton, OH
I'm not sure if the newer Ithaca's will slam fire when chambering a new shell while holding the trigger depressed? I bet they don't. All my Ithaca Mod 37's are late 40's and 50's models and yes they will slam fire. I only do this when I first bought them so I'd know what to expect. Safety first!

In the hands of the wrong shooter this could be dangerous, but if people were shooting themselves or bystanders I'm sure we would of heard about it by now, and Ithaca would have started a massive recall to correct the problem.

My un-educated guess is that the Mod 37's that are being produced today have the disconector in the trigger assembly. Gun maufacture liability these days is nothing to blow your nose at.

It's amazing how many Ithaca owners that respond here to this forum mostly own the older Ithaca's that have this feature. I appreciate reading, contributing, and learning from all the Ithaca lovers such as myself.

To complete my Ithaca collection, I'm searching for a 40's 50's Mod 37 20ga. And I could care lss if it had this slam fire feature. I like to know all my firearms and their features before I take them to the field. Good hunting gentleman, and be safe!

Wags


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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:34 pm
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
I just completed my set with a 1950's 20 ga. I am still looking for more Old Ithacas to add to my collection. I know a 58 16 ga will slam fire I have never tried it on my 1986.


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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:10 pm 
Ithaca added the disconnector 1975-1976 ish. I was told this was done at the request of the ATF so as to eliminate the 'automatic fire' nature of slamfire. All that was done was the addition of a small rectangular attachment to the side of the hammer which catches the hook of the action release.


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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:27 pm 
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When I bought my 1977 DSPS, I called Ithaca to ask about this. They said the change occured in 1975/1976. After that, the slam fire feature was only made available on request to military and LEO contracts.

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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:13 am 
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Walter Snyder wrote:
Ithaca added the disconnector 1975-1976 ish. I was told this was done at the request of the ATF so as to eliminate the 'automatic fire' nature of slamfire. All that was done was the addition of a small rectangular attachment to the side of the hammer which catches the hook of the action release.




God..........the ATF had no right to do that, did they? What a bunch of turds.


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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:43 am 
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I guess that makes sense then on mine. It is a 1981 model 37, but it is a parkerized 8 shot. And it will slam fire, must be military or LE.

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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:17 pm 
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Location: Southeast GA
Ithaca triggers.
SAFETY WARNING - Ensure all firearms are unloaded before attempting any of these function tests.
Over the years, I have encountered FOUR different types of Ithaca triggers on model 37's and 87's. I have also seen "hybrid" guns where parts for an M-37 were used on an M-87 and vice versa. Since these are wildcards, I will only discuss the factory production triggers I have seen and their characteristics.
1. Slam Fire - Most common type of trigger and part of what the Ithaca M-37's is famous for.
Function - Pull the trigger and hold it to the rear. Gun will fire each time the pump is cycled forward and ammo supply holds out. On guns made from 1937 thru 1975-ish.
2. Hammer "ride-up" - Starting somewhere in the 1975 production year, Ithaca started making trigger groups that functioned very much like the "slam fire" trigger in that the hammer will "ride up" the back of the bolt as the slide is pushed forward while keeping the trigger to the rear. However, rounds will not fire while holding the trigger.
Function - pull the trigger and hold rearward. Working the slide, the rounds will cycle through the action but only the first round will be fired. Hammer will ride up behind the bolt each time it comes forward. There is not a trigger disconnector.
Problem - If assuming a "slam fire" capability, the shooter will only cycle UNFIRED (except for the first round) rounds through the shotgun. If the shooter realizes this and releases the trigger, the action will need to be cycled again to recock the hammer. The shotgun will then be ready to fire. On most (if not all) M-37's made from 1975-ish thru 1987. NOTE - It is very difficult to tell if a shotgun has this trigger or the older "slam fire" trigger without actually firing rounds through it as they perform identically in dry fire drills.
3. LAPD Trigger - On some Deer Slayer Police Special (DSPS) Ithaca's made in the late 60's and early 70's. The LAPD decided they wanted a trigger disconnector on their M-37 DSPS's.
Function - Pull trigger and hold, action will still cycle but the hammer remains in rearward postition (cocked) until trigger pressure is slightly released. There IS a disconnector present in this trigger group.
Problem - Very similar to post 1975 production triggers. If assuming a slam fire capability, the shooter will only cycle UNFIRED (again, except for the first round) rounds through the shotgun. However, if the shooter realizes this and releases the trigger (will hear a metalic "click"), the shotgun will be ready to fire without recycling the slide. Only on LAPD pattern DSPS, M-37's from about the mid-60's thru 1974-ish.
4. M-87 Trigger - The Model 87 trigger uses a similar disconnect system to the LAPD trigger except the slide cannot be manipulated until the trigger is released.
Function - Pull the trigger and hold to the rear. Action will not cycle until pressure is taken off the trigger.
Problem - If familiar with or assuming the same function of earlier M-37 triggers, can cause confusion to the shooter. This trigger function is more like those found on the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500.
* Wild Card - I have seen late production M-37's (and one M-87) that have actual "slam fire" capability. I can only assume that these guns had been altered by their owner to use pre-1975 trigger groups. Ithaca made did not make the M-87 with "slam fire" ability but M-37 trigger groups can be made to work in the M-87 as well as all variations of the M-37.

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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:30 am
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Location: Capital City, SC
I mentioned in another post that my parents bought my first M37 for me in the mid-seventies ... it was brand new and it did not slam fire. Thus, my grandfather escorted me to get my money back from the store which it was purchased and we proceeded to stalk the newspapers until we found an older model to his liking that I still own today.

So, I can promise you that, the new ones coming out in the mid-seventies had the disconnector and would not slam fire.

Russ


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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:29 pm
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Airborne Falcon wrote:
I mentioned in another post that my parents bought my first M37 for me in the mid-seventies ... it was brand new and it did not slam fire. Thus, my grandfather escorted me to get my money back from the store which it was purchased and we proceeded to stalk the newspapers until we found an older model to his liking that I still own today.

So, I can promise you that, the new ones coming out in the mid-seventies had the disconnector and would not slam fire.

Russ


Interesting. Bought my first in M37 in 1973, and it does not have a disconnector.

The term "slam-fire" is misused here. That term has always described a malfunctioning repeating shotgun that fires when placed into battery, whether or not the user is holding the trigger back. Pumps that are capbable of firing by holding back the trigger and cycling the action do not have a disconnector.

Winchester M97 trench guns were said to "slam-fire" on occaision using the all-brass GI 00 rounds.

Older Winchester M12s did not have disconnector's, either.
In "Shotguns: The Art and Science" Bob Brister (excellent book, btw) describes how Herb Parsons, Winchester's promotional trick-shooter, would toss 7 or 8 clay birds in the air and bust them all with an M12 (guess the magazine was extended) by holding the trigger and "pumping like hell".

Now, Beretta & Benelli promo shooters do the same thing, but with autos.


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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:50 pm 
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My brother shot a 20ga M37 as a teenager,i remember when he found out they would slam fire by accident while attempting to down a pheasant, i was off to the side and watched this occur, he literally caught the gun out of mid air as it lept out of his hands, and he still missed the pheasant, one of the funniest things i've seen hunting.

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 Post subject: Re: "Slam-Fire" question on M37
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:21 am
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Location: upstate New York
My 1975 vintage 37 20gauge will slam fire.


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