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Have been to see my shoulder specialist as my shoulder & neck has got steadily worse recently since the World Shoot. I have limped through the year icing it after shooting & working round it in tennis & gym work but the specialist reckons it's now impingement syndrome & is operating next Friday
Basically I think the tendonitis made the tendons going through the shoulder joint very inflamed & frayed & they no longer slide through the joint so he drills the joint out a bit & removes the damaged bits of the tendons so they slide freely again.

My Better Half had the same thing a year ago & the same surgery with the same surgeon & recovered very quickly & was back shooting after a month.(He had a bone spur catching on the tendon whereas I don't have any evidence of one). I have decided to take a whole year off to let it recover properly & have physio (we are rebuilding our house after Xmas so it seems like a good time to do that anyway).

What's weird is that we have both had it & I don't know anyone else who has. We are both left handed & both shoot right handed. He shoots about 2-300 a week & I only shoot 1-200 normally- a maximum would be 300 a week so the World Shoot is a one off in the year shooting such quantities. If we are shooting so little & have recoil reducers fitted, heavy K80 guns, padded shirts etc (& I shoot mega low recoil shells) -how come some people shoot 1000 a week without getting any problems at all?- or do they? I had a scan at the trap forum the other day & it seems neck/shoulder problems are common there. Lots of my older skeet friends have neck or back issues.

I have been shooting about 8 years & have always been sporty-is this a occupational hazard or do you think it's just luck & down to your genetics? My uncle was a cyclist & now at 65 is hunched over with 2 new knees & one new hip so it's not looking good if that's the case!

Has anyone

Kate sorry to hear about your shoulder surgery.

Here's hoping that it'll go smoothly and to a speedy recovery!

I'll be thinking of you.

Kataie sorry to hear of your shoulder I jsut had my second operaton for an impingment on my right shoulder in two years so know what you will go threw. This one took me about a month to get back to shooting but then I shoot left handed and it was my right shoudler so I only needed to suport the barrel with my right arm.
best of luck
Tom

If I remember correctly, you guys shoot mostly 12 gauge? As you heard from the trapshooters it's very common to have neck problems due to the recoil, the heavier the loads the sooner and more severe the damage. Really big, heavy people tend to be able to absorb a little more than smaller folks but generally it gets just about everybody eventually. Where I have experienced discomfort is after a four day live bird shoot, perhaps 400-500 11/4 ounce, 1400 fps poppers, but luckily it is temporary. The only variable you may be able to change is gun fit and style, some stock configuration/ shooting style combinations seem to be most susceptible. Hope the surgery works out for you.

Thanks all-yes Eiderz we do but I shoot 21gram loads which is the same as 28 gauge so it is way lower than most

Hi Kate, the shoulder is not a stable joint, and this is so it can also be the most flexible joint in the body. It is also the most complex. If one is mounting the gun in the correct position, it will not impact on the long head of the bicipital tendon, the condition your hub had I believe you said, imping syn, but it will be quite close to the short head, which lies closer to the body midline.

I did meet one fellow who complained of shoulder px post shooting, and it only took 1 shot so see why. The gun didn't fit him so he had gotten into the habit of putting the gun on the bicep tendon just distal (down) from the ant. deltoid (front part of the shoulder muscle). This was cured when he bought a DT10 that fit him like a glove.

eiderz makes a good point with recoil and the neck (cervical region) and it is speculation on my part, that micro concussions may also be triggered by a small or weak person shooting a heavy recoiling gun repeatedly. It's also possible that many of the trap shooters had other problems that precipitated the neck px. I have not had any trap shooters as patients so this is speculation on my part.

Back to your shoulder... I am assuming you have had an MRI done and it did not show any bicipital impingement, but should have pin pointed the problem. I'm thinking it is more likely that you have either bursitis or small avulsions (tears) of the short head of the bicep or of one of several tendons comprising the shoulder girdle that give integrity to the joint. Or even a laboral tear is possible, but again the MRI should show this clearly.

Can't think of a single shooter that ever came into the clinic in 3 years, complaining of shoulder pain. I see and treat neck (cervical) problems all day long, but most are do to poor posture, trauma, disease, or IMO, sleeping on your stomach with your head severely turned to one side. (I call this face sleeping) This I believe causes inflammation and subsequent degeneration of the facet joints.

I do believe tennis players and golfers do have frequent shoulder and elbow problems. There are even syndromes named for those sports, tennis elbow and golfers elbow, depending on if it is the medial or lateral ligament and its epicondyle involved.

So, a betting man or betting lady would focus on the tennis as the original source of the problem, and the shooting as merely an aggravating factor.

I have to run, I'm off to the last couple of days of X-Ray review... Been 6 long days but it's almost over.

Best of luck to you, and wishing you a speedy recovery.

Jim

Hi Kate - I am truly distressed to hear that you will have to undergo surgery, but like Stu, I'm sure you will come out of this on the other side better for it. It is reassuring to know that better half had same injury/surgery and was able to shoot again in a month. This seems to indicate, to my non-medical mind, that while any surgery is very intrusive, that this particular surgery is not as huge an impact as some other orthopedic procedures.

As for the rate of neck and back issues found in shooters, I'm really not at all sure that shooting is a significant factor. We all know how to correctly mount a gun with the result that we get pushed rather than smacked. The acceleration is much different.

Like Jim, perhaps, I think the frequency of reading about these kind of injuries on shooting BBS has more to do with the rapidly increasing age of the clay target shooting population and the fact that being a competitive shooter does not necessarily mean that we kept ourselves in good shape. Not a lot of core muscle conditioning to be found among all the bellies at a tournament.

I think that you having always been involved in sports through out your life, and particularly tennis if this is the arm with which you hold the racket, may have contributed more to your condition than shooting.

I'm 57 and I'm finding that I'm springing out in injuries all over. Disk herniation in the lumbar....write that up to getting older, old cumulative injuries, and lack of core conditioning. Pain in right shoulder...dates back to playing racket ball 3-5 days a week a few decades ago. Tennis elbow....who knows but the cortisone shot 3 years ago worked and it hasn't reappeared.

I do wish you the most speedy of recoveries and the best of all possible outcomes. Please do stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

Plus this is your opportunity to make better half wait on you around the clock. You should get a bell and ring for him when you need something

Kate, hope all goes well with the surgery and the recovery...you are in our thoughts and prayers...tapping the keyboard will be good rehab so keep us informed on your progress and keep that great positive mental attitude...

Dan

Kate, sorry to hear about the need to get cut open! I hope it goes well for you and I look forward to progress reports!!

Thanks for all the positive comments...

As a left hander I play tennis & do everything left handed except shoot so this has got the blame! BUT Dr Jim is right -I am a face sleeper & will stop this immediately!! Part of Nick's rehab has been doing work with a personal trainer particularly on core muscles & those used in shooting. I think as I have always been sporty & am not small using a big gun (as you can see from my pic I'm no 7 stone weakling ). I have had my gun fitted by Todd Nielson & have a pretty good mount -it's nowhere near my bicep so I think it's just bad luck but weird that we both had the same thing (tho when he actually gets inside it may not be) when Dr Jim says that he doesn't see shooters with this. Other Half isn't a face sleeper like me tho!

I will keep in touch & thanks to all ........

Hello Kate, I, like all the other replies to your shoulder problem and your surgery due shortly, wish you all the best and a good recovery. Take advantage of the rehab. period and get others to do lots of little chores for you and maybe a few treats ! (in other words get 'spoiled' a bit). I had upper spinal fusion a few years back and found that using a gas operated semi auto is now the way to go. No jarring effect like a breech opening gun. Look forward to your further comments. Reidy.

Kate, the face sleeping causes degeneration in a different part, up in the facet joints. These are part of the "bump stop" system that keep you from being able to turn your head too far. Mine are quite enlarged from long standing inflammation, and prevent my turning my head as far L or R as it should go, and also prevent me from being able to flex my head very far from side to side.

As far as sleeping prone or supine, either way should not effect your shoulder much if at all, but IMO will have a big effect on your neck as you age.

I am not hearing you talk about MRI, but would guess you probably had one. I would think this the next step after x-ray to try and determine what the problem is. MRI is the gold standard for soft tissue problems, and a fast spin T2 or STIR, etc., should show just about any issues you might have as they are great for picking up inflammation (or any problem really) in the shoulder and rotator cuff.

Carpenters say, measure twice, cut once, surgeons say, look twice, cut once! As you can guess, I'm not a big fan of exploratory surgery. Though it is true, you can't see EVERYTHING until you actually get in there, but most like to have a pretty good idea so they are prepared.

Jim

Sorry to hear about your shoulder and the fact that you need to take the next year off.

Hope you get better quickly and speak to you soon.

You didn't say which shoulder. Could lugging a "heavy gun" around be contributing to your troubles?

Jim 186- well it doesn't help! Am now more or less 1 handed as can't use right arm for much & I keep dropping things Luckily I stopped shooting before I dropped the K gun

Cheers Skeetboy- I'll probably still come along to a few shoots to watch so will see you there anyway.

Dr Jim-the physio thinks I have 2 problems neck & shoulder impingement, she did a load of work on my neck & it was great but I haven't seen her since the summer & now my neck is sore again even though I haven't been shooting or doing any thing BUT face sleeping -which I hadn't thought of til you mentioned it. I've got to the point where the pain from the impingement is stopping me doing everything so want to get it sorted & get back to shooting,tennis & gym. Am planning to do a lot of rehab work with physio & personal trainer & then take it slow.

Hi Kate, check for pm.

Update -had the surgery last Friday evening & was back at home cooking tea by Saturday evening! I can't believe how quickly I have recovered & now have full use with just a bit of soreness- absolutely incredible! I didn't even take a day off yesterday Am still intending to take a year off shooting tho & let it recover properly as we are rebuilding our house so will be somewhat tied up anyway.

Wish I'd done it months ago- I have some nice gruesome piccies of my frayed tendon & the drill making the gap bigger in my shoulder joint - am out for a meal with some shooting buddies this Saturday-think I'll wait til dessert is served & then bring them out so I get all the leftovers

Thanks for all the good wishes

.......happy shooting

thanks for the update. i was wondering how it went. glad you're doing well,enjoy the break and don't forget to drop by from time to time and say hello.

Fabulous news, Kate. Wish you a continued speedy and complete recovery.

Cheers

Hope you have a quick recovery. Good luck with remodeling the house too.