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How to VISUALIZE THE LEAD

12K views 58 replies 23 participants last post by  junkit_boy 
#1 ·
The always returning question I hear most on the shooting ranges is "How much lead did you give to break that target"?
Starting from the considerations that emerged from the past endless thread "Looking hard at the target???.." I begun to reflect on a method to answer that question.
The main concepts and the Unit Lead Method was contained in the book of Pete Blakeley "You're behind it!", so I partially found the solution to the problem. The hard part was how to visualize that U.L. at the target, because you can't alway rely on an instructor with a "target on a stick" behind you showing the correct lead at the muzzle, nor my memory/visual imagery is always good enough to remember the various "sight pictures" and what they look like when projected on the background down at the clay.
So I imagined a personal, repeatable and effective method for visualizing the lead, to fill that gap.

Here you will find a printable picture with the sinthetic description of the method I currently use for having a practical indication of the lead, indifferently at the muzzle or at the clay.
The method essentially is for Visualize the lead, independently from how you succeed on determining it.



I tested the method since last December and I found it very effective, so I'd like to hear your comments on it and maybe, if you can try it yourself, if you found it useful in some way.
Using my hand as a quick and always available ruler I found an effective and repeatable reference on the field for VISUALIZE the lead needed.
I know that hand sizes can vary from shooter to shooter, so maybe someone will need some slight personal adjustment, but generally the ratios between the various segments and parts of the human body (the so called "anthropometric measurements") are constant for the average population.
Looking at distance through the reference constituted by the hand knuckles can make you see the lead down at the clay, and not only at the muzzle, and the results are many times surprising, since many shooters tend to largely underestimate the lead needed, expecially for the long crosser targets.
I like to share this little bit of personal experience with all of you, hoping that it could be useful, and I'm very interested on your comments and on alternative methods you possibly use for the visualization of lead.
Have a Good Independence Day! :D
 
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#27 ·
In terms of target lead, I use the TLAR method...That Looks About Right. I refined the TLAR method when first learning to shoot by starting with a specific lead gouge that was applied trial and error based on target LOS (Line Of Sight) and range. Over the course of many different target presentations, I refined what lead was required, and now I shoot when I see that picture. To see the picture, I have to watch the target, the barrels, the LOS, and the range to the target; all of them.
 
#28 ·
Pete, you're dead right.
There's no other way humans can judge lead on a clay target, with no references to gain perspective, we simply have no perspective. We don't & cannot use the size of the moving target, whilst shooting, to judge distance.
We can judge the distance while viewing the sighters b/c we aren't concentrating on anything else &, we have time to see the target in perspective to other objects in our field of view around the target flight area.
Even after having correctly chosen the distance to particular presentations, the moment we look at it during actual shooting, we no longer perceive the original perspective &, fall back on the lead we know we need for the distance we initially sighted.
Many years back, my local sporting club put on a shoot whereby no sighters were given. We were told the direction of each target & if incoming or outgoing.
The real close stuff was scored quite well, however, the medium to long distance scores were atrocious. It was during this shoot that claims of being able to read the target distance 1st of,f while shooting was, pretty much disproven in my mind.
So, this is why I don't believe the claims of some shooters that they see the CORRECT lead at the target. Our eyes are simply not good enough by a large margin to use the size of the target in flight to discern between median & long distances.

Regards.........................SoT
 
#29 ·
Is there someone that has tried the "Hand method" to see the lead in perspective this weekend? I' d like to know your comments about it, good or bad :D
 
#31 ·
son of thurlo said:
The real close stuff was scored quite well, however, the medium to long distance scores were atrocious. It was during this shoot that claims of being able to read the target distance 1st of,f while shooting was, pretty much disproven in my mind.
Doing poorly reading the distant targets real-time without having ever seen them before does not mean that shooters do not consider target distance while shooting, it only means that some shooters are not practiced at reading target distance real-time while shooting. Certainly a shooter can apply distance to the lead equation after seeing a target prior to shooting the second presentation of that target.

son of thurlo said:
Our eyes are simply not good enough by a large margin to use the size of the target in flight to discern between median & long distances.
I disagree with this.
 
#32 ·
pete blakeley said:
High Rib 52. I agree that good mechanics is important and I always focus on this early on. But I believe that the one thing all shooters struggle with is how much lead a target needs. I also believe that IMO it is easier to teach this by applying this lead at the muzzle. Doesn't Dan Carlisle say this?
Dan showed me the lead with his finger (at the muzzle) and I said I see lead at the target so he said, "OK, it's about four feet". We always worked in feet after that. But to be clear, he was referring to the gap and placement at insertion not final lead. He never told me how much total lead only where to insert the gun.

Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
 
#33 ·
ded&ded said:
Pock65---The type face and half-tone print are not readable when I print it out. Can you provide a version that is more printer friendly. Thank you.
Ken, I tried to save the image in the best resolution available but it is a .jpg file so the best thing is to send you the original .pdf file that has the right resolution. Tomorrow I'll send it to the mail in your signature. Thanks for your interest. :D
 
#34 ·
Pock65 said:
ded&ded said:
Pock65---The type face and half-tone print are not readable when I print it out. Can you provide a version that is more printer friendly. Thank you.
Ken, I tried to save the image in the best resolution available but it is a .jpg file so the best thing is to send you the original .pdf file that has the right resolution. Tomorrow I'll send it to the mail in your signature. Thanks for your interest. :D
If it's not too much trouble,I would like it as well :)

jlservos@gmail.com
 
#35 ·
Thank you very much---I am a user of UL and am trying hard to understand your technique.

If you are saying to hold your hand on the line of the target and the number of second knuckles that you see as the target passes your hand is a indicator of lead in ULs, then I am beginning to get the picture--no pun intended. I look forward to seeing the jpg file. BTW, I have seen shooters using their out-stretched hand and using their fingers as the number of barrel widths of lead.

Thanks again--Ken
 
#36 ·
Pock65 said:
ded&ded said:
Pock65---The type face and half-tone print are not readable when I print it out. Can you provide a version that is more printer friendly. Thank you.
Ken, I tried to save the image in the best resolution available but it is a .jpg file so the best thing is to send you the original .pdf file that has the right resolution. Tomorrow I'll send it to the mail in your signature. Thanks for your interest. :D
I would appreciate the pdf file, too.
thanks.
 
#37 ·
ded&ded said:
Thank you very much---I am a user of UL and am trying hard to understand your technique.

If you are saying to hold your hand on the line of the target and the number of second knuckles that you see as the target passes your hand is a indicator of lead in ULs, then I am beginning to get the picture--no pun intended. I look forward to seeing the jpg file. BTW, I have seen shooters using their out-stretched hand and using their fingers as the number of barrel widths of lead.

Thanks again--Ken
Ken , the best way to use the Hand Lead Method ( :!: ) is to set yourself in the same stance you use when shooting and outstretch completely your hand seeing througph the knuckles the lead needed for the presentation in hand. I do this statically , without the target, to have the perspective at clay distance of what the lenght of forward allowance looks like down at the clay. Then if you want can use your index and medium finger at the appropriate distance to point at the clay when showed, to have an idea of what that lead looks like dinamically. This second step is purely optional anyway.
Tubex please put a mail address or PM me it.
 
#38 ·
Here's the issue I have with all these lead threads -- everybody sees lead differently. Moreover, everybody is at a different experience level.

Performance training commonly is broken down to 4 main levels of competence: Unconscious Incompetence (you are so new you don't even know what you don't know), Conscious Incompetence (you now know enough to know a lot of what you don't know), Conscious Competence (you know a lot, execute well, think about or plan your execution and can articulate your actions afterward) and finally, Unconscious Competence (you've done it so many times you simply execute without conscious thought and have difficulty articulating your actions afterward). I say that depending on where you fall on that scale, how you think about and execute leads is going to be very different.
 
#40 ·
for all you non smokeballers, just a gentle reminder.

Beginner shooter - neo was very weak and struggled to stand or talk, like when he was ejected from the human plant pod in matrix 1. Bf bullied him constantly and would not allow him to help. Bf was a know it all, holding his fingers up, showing a gap and saying "me know lead" me know lead". Every time neo tried to speak bf would interrupt. The shooter hit 5 out of 10
 
#41 ·
RabbitHOP,
in my vision Neo and Bf have finally maked peace, Bf evaluates briefly -before loading the shotgun- the lead needed, than leaves the scene to Neo, who executes finally the shot without undue interferences from Bf.
The shooter now can break the vast majority of the targets if the other components of the shooting process are correctely ingrained and mastered through correct practice: the shooting process it's like a chain, it will never be stronger than its weakest link, lead is only one of the ingredients needed to succeed, and probably the easier to master if the correct technique is used.
After many years of research I finally found mine, and I hope it will be of some utility for someone else.
 
#43 ·
Pock65 said:
RabbitHOP,
in my vision Neo and Bf have finally maked peace, Bf evaluates briefly -before loading the shotgun- the lead needed, than leaves the scene to Neo, who executes finally the shot without undue interferences from Bf.
The shooter now can break the vast majority of the targets if the other components of the shooting process are correctely ingrained and mastered through correct practice: the shooting process it's like a chain, it will never be stronger than its weakest link, lead is only one of the ingredients needed to succeed, and probably the easier to master if the correct technique is used.
After many years of research I finally found mine, and I hope it will be of some utility for someone else.
i don't see what step you take to occupy your conscious mind in that
 
#44 ·
RabbitHOP, we have debated this argument in long and large in the other thread for 87 pages, I'd like to keep at the OP. I can briefly say that I found simple to occupy the conscious mind addressing it to a simple task: looking at the target or at a single part of it (not necessarily with an extra hard focus, enough to be able to see the entire sight picture without losing the perception of the muzzle in peripheral vision). Given the fact that conscious mind can make a single task at a time I give it this one and get it out of undue interferences with the other multitasking/most efficient side. With an adequate mental training it's quite not difficult.
 
#45 ·
ded&ded said:
Thank you very much---I am a user of UL and am trying hard to understand your technique
Ken, did you receive the file and by chance did you have time to try to use the technique??
 
#46 ·
Any feedback on the "Hand lead method" proposed would be greatly appreciated, and comments from all readers are welcomed.

Thanks :D
 
#49 ·
Wilsonjs,
please PM me your e-mail, it seems not to be possible to upload .pdf files directely in a post.
Comments are welcomed :D
 
#50 ·
Pock65---Still no good field test--but s few observations--

Your system is basically a nomograph--a tool that simplifies a complex problem and provides a workable solution. And since you always have your hand with you it is a convenient tool to use. I relies o a certain extent on how uniformly sized your fingers or knuckles are. It relies on lead at the muzzles--which is another topic that has been beat to death.

The WGS moto--"We will beat no dead horse before its time."

It also is an application of the enclosed angles theorum of plane geometry (Parallel lines) which Peter uses to demonstrate why long targets to not require excessive perceived lead. Also as Peter points out, very long full crosser begin to need a few more units because of loss of velocity.

My expectation is that your system will work well within about 40 yards and then begin to be less reliable as distance to the targets increases beyond 40 yards. So how many 50 yard crossers to you see in a year---not many.

For a new shooter who needs a first approximation target solution, I expect it to work fine.

More after Thursday….
 
#51 ·
Hi Ken,
thank you for your insightful comments.
As I wrote in the OP the system works expecially well on visualizing the lead at the clay , not only at the muzzle:
Pock65 said:
"Looking at distance through the reference constituted by the hand knuckles can make you see the lead down at the clay, and not only at the muzzle, and the results are many times surprising, since many shooters tend to largely underestimate the lead needed, expecially for the long crosser targets"
.

ded&ded said:
My expectation is that your system will work well within about 40 yards and then begin to be less reliable as distance to the targets increases beyond 40 yards. So how many 50 yard crossers to you see in a year---not many.
The system has been personally tested on medium (50 mph) and fast (60 mph) crossing target until the distance of 70 yds, so I think you will be surprised if applying the correct amount of lead you will break the target as well.
I did not intentionally put here the theoretical part not to bore the majority of readers, but is easily explainable that with "4 knuckles" of lead (5 U.L.) , using a normal 1200 fps shell, you can successfully break a crosser target with a medium speed of 50 mph at a distance varying from 50 to 70 yds and with a "full hand" of lead (6 U.L.) you can break a fast speed target (60 mph) at the same distances (from 50 to 70 yds).
Anyway, if in doubt, for long crossers I always prefer to err on the greater side, they never fly backwards and the target setters usually set them at full spring to not let them seem sloppy birds :D .
Crossers are the only target type that require you to make a reasonable estimation of the distance and speed of the clay, for all the others (narrow, intermediate and wide quarterings until 60° angle) the lead remains the same for the given presentation angles (1 - 2 or 3 U.L.).

Let me know your impressions, if you have time to post, after you tried it on the field :) .

P.S.: A caveat for the newbies :wink: : this method is intended NOT to measure lead while you are shooting, but for VISUALIZING it BEFORE. So when you enter the cage and have visualized it with your hand, you have had an effective idea of what the gap looks like down at the clay (the "sight picture"); from now on you can shoot like you have always done, trying to reply the sight picture you visualized in your mind an instant before, not measuring, not looking at the muzzle and not stopping the gun during the swing.
Knowing lead is only a part of the process, unfortunately it will not make you a masterclass in a nighttime, but knowing how to visualize it (in alternative to having a good "data bank" of sight pictures) is IMHO anyway a good step beyond in mastering the art of shooting.
 
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