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How to VISUALIZE THE LEAD

12K views 58 replies 23 participants last post by  junkit_boy 
#1 ·
The always returning question I hear most on the shooting ranges is "How much lead did you give to break that target"?
Starting from the considerations that emerged from the past endless thread "Looking hard at the target???.." I begun to reflect on a method to answer that question.
The main concepts and the Unit Lead Method was contained in the book of Pete Blakeley "You're behind it!", so I partially found the solution to the problem. The hard part was how to visualize that U.L. at the target, because you can't alway rely on an instructor with a "target on a stick" behind you showing the correct lead at the muzzle, nor my memory/visual imagery is always good enough to remember the various "sight pictures" and what they look like when projected on the background down at the clay.
So I imagined a personal, repeatable and effective method for visualizing the lead, to fill that gap.

Here you will find a printable picture with the sinthetic description of the method I currently use for having a practical indication of the lead, indifferently at the muzzle or at the clay.
The method essentially is for Visualize the lead, independently from how you succeed on determining it.



I tested the method since last December and I found it very effective, so I'd like to hear your comments on it and maybe, if you can try it yourself, if you found it useful in some way.
Using my hand as a quick and always available ruler I found an effective and repeatable reference on the field for VISUALIZE the lead needed.
I know that hand sizes can vary from shooter to shooter, so maybe someone will need some slight personal adjustment, but generally the ratios between the various segments and parts of the human body (the so called "anthropometric measurements") are constant for the average population.
Looking at distance through the reference constituted by the hand knuckles can make you see the lead down at the clay, and not only at the muzzle, and the results are many times surprising, since many shooters tend to largely underestimate the lead needed, expecially for the long crosser targets.
I like to share this little bit of personal experience with all of you, hoping that it could be useful, and I'm very interested on your comments and on alternative methods you possibly use for the visualization of lead.
Have a Good Independence Day! :D
 
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#3 ·
Barring high wind, my lead on skeet station four is always the same. It never changes. I know what the lead looks like. I recognize it when I see it. I put two clays in the yard twenty-one yards away with the station four lead that I visually remember. I mount my gun with full focus on one of the clays and place the bead on the other clay. I repeat until the end of the barrel becomes invisible. If the barrel isn't invisible to me, I will sometimes miss.

I reserved a spot in a Missouri Department of Conservation shooting class. I knew you would take a shooting test on crossing shots at 20, 30 and forty yards. I took the class mainly to safely take 40 yard crossing shots. Never shot forty yard crossers. Figured I should double my twenty yard lead to hit 40 yard crossers. Practiced with two clays in the yard spaced apart twice as much as my skeet station four lead. Hit six out of eight at forty yards. I was proud when they told me to go around the fence and try 50 yards.

I do not understand the unit lead method. If you want to visualize the lead, just put out clays with the appropriate spacing at various distances. You will learn when the clay looks small increase the lead.

You can use this method whether you look hard at the target or if you look for an imaginary spot ahead of the target.
 
#4 ·
I found having someone watch you and coach you as to how much lead you are lacking is the best way to learn lead. Judging distance, speed, and angle are the hard part. Calculating the lead based off known information would be fairly simple however converting from paper to real life shooting is only done with practice. I can be told you need 12' of lead and unless you practice that does not really help you when determining how to shoot the target. Look at the bird very hard and pretend to throw a ball at 1200 fps to intercept the clay is my best reasoning. If you are playing american football the quarterback does not look at where he is throwing the ball rather he is looking at the player or "target" in this case and the lead is a feel that is calculated at the moment in the field based off practice and experience. I agree that looking at a chart and calculating what your anticipated lead might be could be helpful and reduce the number of lost birds if you practice that method. Best of luck and happy shooting.
 
#5 ·
myrickjim said:
Calculating the lead based off known information would be fairly simple however converting from paper to real life shooting is only done with practice. I can be told you need 12' of lead and unless you practice that does not really help you when determining how to shoot the target.
You centered the problem, this practical method is intended to give an acceptable approximation of the lead needed at various distances and angles without any other device.
If you put two clays at a distance of 5 yds at 50 yds, and ask 10 persons what that distance is, you will have 10 different answers. If you look through the space between the knuckles on your hand equivalent to 5 U.L. you will find that it encloses a space of about 5 yards at 50 yds (or 4 yds at 40 yds, that is approximately the lead needed to break a full crosser clay at that distance).

Crossing shot said:
If you want to visualize the lead, just put out clays with the appropriate spacing at various distances.
This is also a good method, I've also used it, but when you are in a range or in competition and you need to visualize the lead needed for a certain presentation you cannot go down and put two clays to do it. If you have a good "sight picture" memory bank you can overcome this problem, but my memory sometime is not so good... :)

KRIEGHOFFK80 said:
I knew my post would show up again.
:lol: Terry, this post is not about where to look, there are already more than 80 pages on it, it's only about how to visualize the lead. :wink:
 
#7 ·
TR/SC3 said:
Good stuff Pock, very useful. Thank you.

TR
+3 :D Learning the UL from Pete was a real boost to helping me understand "lead" and having a better idea on what different targets need to get an X.
 
#9 ·
Pete, those were really happy days :) when I was 9 I was the proud owner of a Diana airgun and the use was the same as yours :lol: I had to wait until I was 12 to get the permission from my father to shoot his Franchi semiauto 12 gauge. ... :(
 
#10 ·
My head is swimming....................

All I know is I was asked "how much lead" after I broke a few long crossers on station 15 at 7 Springs last Sunday. I told them the absolute truth. "Start your gun here, say pull and hit the trigger and pray to God!" That's exactly what I did. Anyone who shot 7 Springs last Sunday knows what I'm talking about. I went 3/8 on that staion and was proud of it hahahaha
 
#13 ·
Showme, from my figures at 40 yds and for speed of 35 mph the lead is 2.10 yds, for 45 mph is 2.80 yds and for 55 mph is 3.50 yds.Note that 55 - 60 mph is the usual speed for the presentations I see in sporting here, so 5 U.L.are the correct lead. Note that with the U.L. speed can be in some way relevant only for full crossers. For all the other presentations speed is irrelevant. :)
 
#14 ·
While that might be good for a beginning shooter so they have a reference, It requires a consious thought which isn't very conductive to shooting. Also there are those screwed up people like myself that see lead at the target, not at the barrels. But to be quite honest, when shooting like I should be (sub-consious) I don't even know how much I give a target, but I am in front of it. I favor the pullaway method for most presentations, as your not chasing and either mount on or in front of the target, run with it just a bit and then stretch the lead (as Anthony teaches target 20/ gun 21).
 
#15 ·
myrickjim said:
I found having someone watch you and coach you as to how much lead you are lacking is the best way to learn lead. Judging distance, speed, and angle are the hard part. Calculating the lead based off known information would be fairly simple however converting from paper to real life shooting is only done with practice. I can be told you need 12' of lead and unless you practice that does not really help you when determining how to shoot the target. Look at the bird very hard and pretend to throw a ball at 1200 fps to intercept the clay is my best reasoning. If you are playing american football the quarterback does not look at where he is throwing the ball rather he is looking at the player or "target" in this case and the lead is a feel that is calculated at the moment in the field based off practice and experience. I agree that looking at a chart and calculating what your anticipated lead might be could be helpful and reduce the number of lost birds if you practice that method. Best of luck and happy shooting.
Jim

Were you a quarterback? I was. Not pro level but enough to know that the QB is looking at the receiver, the defender(s), AND the spot where he wants the ball to be.

I've shot a few times with Boomer when I lived in Cincinnati (full disclosure- he doesn't know me nor are we friends). However; if I ever shoot with him again I'll ask him for his take on this.
 
#16 ·
thanks for posting, it is very interesting, a good way to actually visualize lead in a variety of scenarios. I'm still learning and it's going to help.
you do have to get the angles and distances right, you could over-analyzie, but it's a good start.

If I understand it correctly, on a skeet field station 2, 3 and 4 require UL 2, 3 and 4?

For Skeet, the width of the concrete pad on #8 happens to be the correct lead and I judge lead from how that looks at stations 2-6.
 
#17 ·
You can find more info on lead for skeet with the U.L. method here:http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=291093

In brief:

Low house targets.

#1 1 unit, #2 2 units, #3 4 units, #4 4 units #5 2 units, #6 1 unit #7 0 units

High house targets.

#1 0, #2 1 unit, #3 2 units, #4 4 units, #5 4 units, #6 2 units, #7 1 unit.
 
#18 ·
I started by placing two clays in the yard with 42 inches between them to see what my lead should look like. Couldn't hit skeet station 4. I kept changing the distance between the clays until I started hitting station 4. At that point the clays were only 24 inches apart.

How would UL work for me? Does everyone else use the mathematical lead with success?
 
#19 ·
I shot yesterday and one station had an edge-on crosser, with a good bit of spring. First bird in the report pair was an easy looper at about 20 yards. I was the only one in our squad to run it. One other shooter was M and the other two were AA.

I walked out to where the crosser was coming directly overhead and stepped the distance off. 48 yards to where I was breaking it. The lead that I saw looked to be about 5-6 feet. I don't consider that a hard target at all. I will miss a meal to shoot really long birds. I love them. However, I never think what the lead needs in feet before shooting. That is counterproductive for me. I just know what that lead is supposed to look like on that presentation, at that distance and speed. It just takes lots and lots of committed practice to learn what all those leads are supposed to look like. When you see an experienced shooter pointing with his finger at the show bird, he is doing just that, not calculating feet, but just seeing if it looks right.

I guess it is beneficial for a new shooter to learn like that, mathematically, until he learns what that lead should look like. But, eventually, I believe he should allow his subconscious to "calculate" that. Memory is a wonderful thing, if you allow it to work.

WMD
 
#20 ·
W M D said:
I walked out to where the crosser was coming directly overhead and stepped the distance off. 48 yards to where I was breaking it. The lead that I saw looked to be about 5-6 feet. I don't consider that a hard target at all.
https://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/d ... istics.pdf

This is a very interesting thread, and concept. Looking at the above chart, I calculated the time-to-target at about 0.168 seconds at 48 yards for 7.5 shot starting at 1290 fps. For a bird traveling at just 40 mph (is that very much spring?), the calculated lead is 9.80 feet. At 50 mph, the calculated lead is 12.32 feet. And, at 60 mph a whopping 14.78 feet!

With a 40 inch effective pattern at 48 yards (my first guess, I have no patterning experience at 48 yards), you can be off 20 inches either way. For the 40 mph bird, that means an effective calculated lead of between 8 and 11.5 feet, rounded out.

But, in my feeble brain, no matter what method you use, your muzzles must be 9.80 feet in front of a bird traveling 40 mph 48 yards away, when the wad exits the choke, for a center of pattern hit.

Danny
 
#21 ·
Crossing shot. Were you shooting swing through or diminishing lead?
I think I am shooting sustained lead, but I know mathematically that is not possible. I think I insert ahead of the target where I want the lead to be and sustain this lead. I know that does not add up.

I do not want someone to stand behind me and tell me what I am actually doing. I'm afraid I will make a correction and extend my lead. It is nice having a short lead. If I estimate the range at 35 yards and it is actually 25 yards, the pattern still might catch the clay. Happy with my shooting and it is consistent.

I just wonder if others are like me. Does the UL always work for your students or do you make slight adjustments? In other words, do all your students always have the same lead?
 
#23 ·
pete, I did not mean to say, or imply, that I do not consciously see lead, or apply it. I do! I just do not calculate it, mathematically. I do not say "Okay, that crosser needs 4 feet", or "This trap shot needs one unit". I did at one time, but now I know what it is supposed to look like, I can picture it on the show birds, and I recognize it when my muzzle is out there ahead of it.

And I shoot diminishing lead on long crossers, never letting my muzzle get behind the bird at any time it is in sight.

WMD
 
#24 ·
pete blakeley said:
W M D. Interestingly enough, top Olympians apply conscious lead.

Crossing shot. Were you shooting swing through or diminishing lead?
Pete,

Olympians don't shoot sporting clays. It seems to be more difficult than ever to read targets the way targets are being set at some venues. More than once I've said to my squad mates, "is that bird at 30 yards or 45 yards"? It can even be hard to tell if they're going out or coming in. I think target reading is becoming a bigger part of the game as courses become more technical.

Having said that, with much practice I think we all build our own UL database. The point is well taken within your system that the gap on a quartering bird, for example, looks the same at the barrel whether it's 25 yards or 45 yards. So even though I see gap at the target, I know it looks the same at either distance. But I don't say to myself the 25 footer takes 2' and the 45' takes 5'. At that point, I think its more important to be applying good mechanics and focus. The UL database should already be there. I've found when helping new shooters that they always want to know the lead at the expense of learning good mechanics. I explain that knowing the lead is the easy part, that learning how to apply it properly is our goal.

Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
 
#25 ·
Danny, that is exactly why I don't think in terms of feet. I simply cannot estimate accurately the necessary lead in feet. I do not doubt one second that the numbers you quoted are right. I just know what it is supposed to look like on a particular bird, and if my muscles cooperate and I have the gun there when I trigger it, it will break. If I don't, it doesn't. I should have known better than to even try to estimate it in feet.

WMD
 
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